Signing and dating

A hot tip for signing dogs: Take a nail scissors and carefully clip your signature into the right flank of the animal. If it is facing the wrong way, you can use force to get it in a suitable position. Enhance your signature with sheep or food dye. I also advocate making your signature even more forceful on dog-free exhibits by using neon paint/ink and placing it more centrally. It is also a nice idea to include your middle names. If someone sees the exhibit and says “Look, that’s old Tommy at it again” you can then verify that Tommy is in fact Frederick Oscar Thomas Mayhew-Archer without actually having to be present. Paintings based on familiar paragons such as Caravaggio or Matisse should not be signed on the front so as to preserve the illusion of great value for as long as possible.

I title and sign everything on the back side of the canvas. I never date anything. Leave it for the overly anal critics and lecturers of the future to argue over which came first. In the end, which is more important ? That piece hanging on the wall, or the details of “how-why-who” ? The name is not the product.

I recently acquired two watercolors by James Green. Both are signed in the lower right corner with complementary color. However, nowhere are they dated. With the help of people on the Internet I have a window of when he may have painted them. That window is in the 1960’s or 1970’s but that is just a guess. This artist passed away in 2005. With my own work I tend to sign in the lower right but will sign in the lower left. I date it on the back in pencil with a short note about the inspiration for the painting. I work in watercolor so that is easy.

I advise my students to sign their work either the lower left or right in a clear and readable manner and not to hide it in the design. People looking at paintings almost always want to know who is the artist and don’t want to search all over for the signature. I usually wait to sign my paintings until after they are photographed because I enter several competitions each year. My earlier paintings are dated, but I no longer do this for the reasons you, Robert, gave above. However, I don’t think the art lovers buying my paintings care about when they were done, they know what they like.

Sad. I disagree with any conscious decision to leave off the date to avoid works being judged stale if they do not sell quickly. Ethical? You decide.

Thanks for a great article. I agree with the ‘no dating’ suggestion. I dropped that practice years ago and I find it interesting, that I never get asked the question “when exactly did you paint that?”

My name is on the right lower corner big enough that there is no doubt it’s me. I make sure my composition includes my signature so there is no conflict. I too stopped dating my work after a gallery owner refused to put work in a show that was more than three years old, “It has become redundant now it is over three years old why would you show it?” she said, to which I replied “You have worked here over three years are you redundant?”

History is important. I always want to know when things were brought into being. Books, music, movies, paintings, automobiles. I date my work on the back…usually including the month.

I sign my work “W. Aubel”. Unfortunately, I think, now even my husband calls the paintings “waubels,” rhyming with wobbles. I like signing W. Aubel and will likely continue, but thought I’d mention my problem for anyone who might have a similarly structured name. I’ve been in the local gallery when someone said, “I like the Waubels.” It’s actually sort of cute, but could lead to embarrassment, though not to me.

Lack of a date is not an ethical consideration at all.

Dealers request paintings not to be dated as a selling strategy which makes their work easier. That is similar to requesting the edges and back of the canvas to be neat, framing to be done in a certain way etc. It doesn’t affect the artistic expression, but it is one of many little annoying considerations around presentation of the work. Unfortunately many hours in the studio get wasted on that kind of formatting work. Those hours would be more preciously spent on creating so it’s best to make it as efficient as possible. It takes less time not to date the work, then having to erase it later after shipping it back and forth several times. In the ideal world, we would just create a piece of art and not worry about anything else (sublime). In the real world we have to cooperate with other people, and find compromising strategies and work around solutions (dull). I like to make this dull part pleasant, friendly and respectful. Humor also helps when something annoying has to be done – how about enclosing a note with a next year’s date and a warning “this painting will self-destruct if not sold by this date”. I am convinced that the collectors would enjoy the piece just the same, regardless of the date or not, but the people who find it’s home have a certain way of doing their job which I respect. As for an ethical consideration – the artist is not lying about the date, just omitting to write it on the painting. The archives are kept accurate and can be shared.

I think signing on front is extremely distracting and ruins the painting. I sign on the back with date, and time, that is quite useful.

I sign my works and up until a couple of years ago, dated them as well. Now however I only date my sketches and supporting documentation – so it’s “on the record” somewhere in my archives.

To not have a legible signature and date is a restoration artist nightmare.

I used to insist on signing my full name to establish my gender but I’m over that. Now my initials and last name are sufficient. Signing in lights or darks may fade into the painting but cadmium red solves that nicely.

Loved your comment about not signing “dogs”, in fact, I have to remember to close the sun roof before loading on top of my car to go for a freedom from the dogs ride!

When finishing a painting either in the studio or in a public demonstration I believe it’s a designation of finish to sign a work. It tells me that I have made the best work I can. As for works with dates, I never put a date on a work expressly because I believe a work is new until it is exhibited or sold. I’ve exhibited work ten or fifteen years later and no one would ever know it wasn’t painted last week unless I tell them. Also there are works that I repaint or “fix” years later until I believe it is finished. For my money it is part of a body of work done over a lifetime all of which is valid as part of an artists portfolio. The only time a work is assigned a period of time is when your fame increases and the value becomes important when placed into a “period” of an artists development. I strongly believe that its the artist job to paint and let others worry about time frame. The other reason not to date is if a work gets shown and doesn’t sell in one show that it won’t sell in a different show or at a later date. Signing and dating is important only for those who keep records of such facts. In the end, it’s all my work. When it was done is of no consequence- to me.

I follow your example for signing and (not) dating. However, my record-keeping is chronological, by “title” and it occurs to me that if a question comes up regarding a painting, the owner will most likely not know the title and/or date painted. This could pose a problem. Should I be indicating the “title” on the back of the work for cross-reference? Also, is it inappropriate to use a title more than once? Thanks for all your valuable help!

Re: the signing and dating issue. I take exception to both…especially the signing. Was it you who quoted someone who said “to sign is egotistical and to not sign is egotistical”? I say”yes” to a representational piece but “no” to a non objective, non representational work. Signing a non objective piece is – in my opinion-just “bad form”. About “dating”: I have taught seminars about the early Taos painters (1898 to 1929) and found that the great Victor Higgins (as well as others) often did not date their work for the reason that you stated. This has made it difficult for the art historians. Why not this: let the artist code the painting date? The gallery and the buyer can then have this information if needed but it will not be on the painting. P.S. Isn’t it unfortunate that “who” painted it is important?

I agree with Robert about not dating your paintings as well as signing unobtrusively and in the same place – lower right. I paint an under color on all of my paintings and since I paint pretty thickly I scratch my signature into the wet paint. If I am painting an abstract on a gallery wrapped canvas and I think the signature might distract from the design I will scratch my signature on the side of the canvas. I also keep a file that has the date of the paintings in case I get inquiries although I have never had anyone ask for that. On some older paintings that I put the date on the back side I have gone back and gessoed over the date. I agree that clients might make a judgment about a painting with an older date even though it is still a good painting.

Look at art history, see what others have done before our times, when commerce and all the nonsense that comes with it leans heavily on artists. I was shocked to see North American artists sign their name with the addition of the copyright symbol! How deep can you drop? I’d like to break a lance for art, as opposed to commercial art. I know the dividing line is far from clear, and that all good art as to do with money, but still… I prefer to sign my paintings, either full name, or initials, plus the date. To be sure, I sign the back and add the date, even day-month-year if I feel that it the moment or encounter was an important one. If finished in one sitting I might scratch my name with the back of my brush in the wet paint. I agree with Robert, unobtrusive and clear. Some artists sign with a grand flourish: yuck. What it spells: commerce and an over-blown ego.

Currently, I sign very small and include a web url – this has caused some issues with galleries saying they want sales to come through to them. I say fine I’m giving you a territory and always ask, that it is in my favor to have my galleries be happy. I have given commissions to galleries in their territories, even though I know the customer has found me on the web. It has caused some friction and some galleries who have otherwise been willing to represent me have declined if I wouldn’t change. Here is the deal though, with some notable exceptions, galleries come and go and relationships with galleries change over time, and ultimately I want interested people to find me. (Some galleries also wanted me to take down my website) Though everyone calls me a painter I am photographic based and work in limited editions, and I also sign and date originals on the back printing archival pieces as needed. The plate sign on the front has the date when I finished the piece. So my pieces currently have a plate sign with date the image was created and url small left or right which ever is better for the piece. On the back I sign again, number and indicate the inventory number of the piece. If I found the correct gallery to act as a master distributor, I might change these practices and take down my website or better yet have the gallery be the only contact on the website.

Good topic! My medium is watercolor and so far I’ve kept my originals. I’m totally new to the commercial side of all this, but have found a meticulous giclee printer in nearby Greenville, SC. There are times when he has actually improved my paintings by deepening the saturation of certain hues. . . I’m wondering how the pros handle signing–do they sign each giclee print? Do they number their prints as well (understanding that there is no real reason for doing so)? I’ve been asked to number (“and make it a low number”) by some people to whom I’ve given giclee prints. Others seem to like “artist’s proof”. Neither strikes me as particularly honest. So, what do the pros do?

I recently saw several Monet works in the same place. They were all signed with the same signature and it was always on the bottom. But some were signed on the right, some on the left, and some in the middle. The coloration of the bottom portion of the paintings seemed to be the deciding factor: he always signed with a dark signature in a light area– in this particular show, at any rate.

I agree with all of your comments about where to put a signature and if you should put one on a painting and also dates.

Sorry, folks, but if you have to ask questions like this, find another profession. I don’t know of any other profession that would even deal with such uncertainty and still be considered a professional. How very sad.

I just wanted to thank you for your clear and well-stated input on this often debated subject. I mostly work in glass, and have followed my many predecessors lead by unobtrusively dating my work on the bottom, but I believe I will stop doing that immediately. I have also found it true that when an older piece is new to a gallery, it frequently sells as “fresh & new” work. I will also make a point (in my paintings) to be much more consistent with my signature – your thoughts on this make excellent sense.

When I was in art school they kept telling us not to sign the front of the painting because it was pretentious and I noticed other artists from other art schools doing the same thing, even a high school student I met. Out from under the art school thumb, I now sign the front of my paintings and also date them because the buyers request it, that made my decision for me.

Most of my work is small and precise. The idea of putting my name on it, on the front of it, just feels silly. My composition is the painting, my name is on the back of the panel, and then on the backing of the frame. Having paid much attention to the painting itself, and having ample space to include my name, data, and address on the back, why would I then chose to deface a square inch on the front with my signature?

I’m of the school to sign and put any pertinent or impertinent data as to location for instance and circumstance. Such data on the back of the painting adds a personal touch though I also agree with a discreet lower left or right corner front signatures. The signing on the back is much a Russian philosophy… frontal incognito, anonymous and ego-less, it’s the art not the signature that’s important.

Perhaps you intentionally did not comment on it to stir up conversation , but would not a signing thereon be of value in any copyright dispute?

Some years ago you remarked to another artist that having an older,dated work hang in a commercial gallery might make a potential buyer think of stale buns in a bakery. I took that to heart and immediately stopped dating my pottery. I now cringe a bit when I turn over an older piece and see a date on the bottom.

I disagree about dating the front, I think an artwork doesn’t have a use-by/sell-by date. I generally sign bottom right plus year, but if the composition doesn’t allow it, then I move it to the left. www.SuePownallArtist.co.uk

Sargent’s signature was often in his regular written signature and incised into the oil paint with a pointed object. Unless you know what your are looking at, it is practically indecipherable. The signature itself gives the feeling of additional haste. Was this a ploy?

Picasso writ large or put a “P” and dated on the front

My problem is my last name is too long, in my handwriting anyway. So I thought up a simple sign, but then who would know what that sign means.

Signing and dating artwork is a matter of convention. Personally I find signatures on paintings to be obtrusive and intrusive to the process of immersion in considering the impact of the work. In fine art printmaking (not reproductions) the convention of signing in pencil, giving edition number and title is somewhat less disruptive of the viewing enjoyment. Personally dislike signing my own work, because it is not important that I did them, but the impact the work may have on another. If someone wants me to sign the front of a painting, I do so reluctantly, while holding my nose, so there are few of my signed painting floating around, includng one which ended up in a second-hand furniture store That little experience reminded me to remain humble, and to set little stock in the illusion that my work will have legs into the future, or have anything beyond fleeting importance.

To me, an unsigned painting is an unfinished painting, floating somewhere in limbo between being approved by the artist and destined for the dump… Not only that, I always consider placement of signature as carefully as I might any other element of the composition. It is therefore not an ‘afterthought’, but an integral part of the design and should also work in terms of its colour. I do tend to date my signatures on oil paintings as I find most clients prefer this (and so do I) but on my watercolours and drawings I confine things to initials only. No idea why, but this is just what I’ve always done and I like to be consistent!

I like your easel and description . . . and the “window” above the canvas (I realize the “window” changes as the canvas size changes) but I like the idea that there is an open space in which to gaze and not feel boxed in, similar to painting outdoors and letting the energy in

I will usually sign my work in a somewhat unobtrusive manner, usually on the lower right side.I like to think my style and work is unique enough that most local folks know who did it, should that matter, so I don’t make a big deal out it. I like red ocher so long as the color does not detract. This works nicely for the neighborhood in which I live and work, however we really must be aware of the times in which we live, Peter Waters has a good point. One must be prepared to deal with copyright disputes. Several times now I have found my work showing up in places and in forms for which I did not give permission and felt embarrassed by the use. Since the use has generally been localized it hasn’t been much of a problem. It motivates me to now “embed” the date and copyright into the paint, usually quite small and/or in an analogous color, in a a way that few can find so as to actually prove my ownership of reproduction rights if ever necessary. I also clearly spell out reproduction rights in my bill of sale. As a side point, I have done a reasonable amount of restoration work. I am also something of an amateur historian so I get asked to look at old paintings a lot. I like to be able to do some research and tell something about a nice old painting that has been in someones family for some time. This motivates me to take digital images and a written record of the work, sometimes even while it is in progress, and include the provenience in an envelope attached inside of a canvas. I have always attached a piece of thin fabric or sometimes paper over the back of a canvas to keep out dust and bugs so its fairly easy to hide this envelope inside.I guess I hope that my work will be among those old paintings that will have been in someones family sometime in the future. Finally,I hate to see signatures that are little more than banners that detract from the work.There’s this story about a guy who was asked to paint a horse on a barbershop wall for free, since he was going to get a lot of free advertising in return. . .

Page 23 “Love letters to Art” you are using a “sit down” easel for plein air….I’d like one….can an 80 year old gal make one?

Robt, you must have a big, healthy, sturdy, cushioned butt. I need lots of padding and pillows or my traveling wedge to be comfortable (polio at 3yrs

This is an excellent easel. Care to give more details chance that someone else would like to make a copy for their own “altar piece”. Truly one of the more straight forward and uncomplicated easels that I have seen in a while. Thanks for sharing.

And you forgot to mention…a faithful companion by the chair…I find my dog a perfect studio friend

And you forgot to mention…a faithful companion by the chair…I find my dog a perfect studio friend

No name, no date, in full agreement. There is a lot of knowledge and words of wisdom in Robert’s letter, so do as he suggests. Having a gallery, I can tell you stories of rejection because of an older date on the front or back. People do think they are dogs if not sold in a decent length of time. If you want to place them in your Raisonee in proper order, you may be able to do it yourself because you may still have all of them. Do your due diligence and take the time to start your own inventory list. Keep records of all pieces. Take a photo, so easy now that we have digital, add the name of the piece, the size and the person or gallery that it first went to, and the date with lastly, an inventory number that you can in years to come refer back to, to find out when you painted this beauty and finally, put the same inventory number on the back of the painting. Easy and not much time involved if you do it one at a time as you paint them. Remember to use some letters and some numbers so your code won’t be broken. People respect inventory numbers because it shows them you are a serious painter and may have painted at least one other painting. And having a gallery that does evaluations, collectors come in regularly after the garage sales close on Saturday and they have something that their mother owned forever ? and they would like to know what they are worth. Well, I can’t tell them if I can’t read your name. Its great if you have super cool logo or chop and you are famous but come back in thirty years or so and squiggle, squiggle, dot, dot won’t mean anything to anyone. Do us all a favour sign your full name, first and last, small so as not to appear overconfident or conceited and in a colour that lets it blend it a bit so it doesn’t overpower your creation. Sorry, this is a business so let’s get businesslike.

Just a comment about what I’m doing concerning dating paintings. I have a collection of large paintings dated 1999 & 2000 on both the fronts and the backs. At the time, (I was in graduate school pursuing an MA in painting) no one said not to do this. in fact, while in undergrad school (early 80’s), I was encouraged to date paintings under the signature, so I did. This collection of large tree paintings have had some, but very little, exposure in exhibitions. I am interested in exhibiting new paintings along with the older, original ones that influenced the new ones. I have just spent hours trying to cover up the dates on the fronts and backs of these paintings so that they may be accepted for future shows. I think you are right about the perception that if you’ve still got them in your studio & storage, they must not be good, which is too bad. It makes me think that the paintings are not fairly judged for their quality. Any additional thoughts or advice? Other than don’t date anything except on a notecard? Troy, MT

I laughed when I looked at the photo of your altar. You work as boxed in as I do, with junk on the floor, rags and sketches on random pieces of paper floating around and a pile of sketch books. My husband wonders how I can work in all that mess. But I don’t see a mess. I just have to put all my ideas and ruminations around me as I paint, so that I can channel them into my paintings.