The art price mystery

One thing I can say with near-certainty is that price has only the slimmest connection to quality. At the local gallery level, name recognition of the artist is paramount. (I guess this is true internationally as well.) The problem I have with the hustler, self-promoter artists I’ve known is that almost to a person they believe that sales success is irrefutable proof of their excellence as an artist.

For artists (like portrait artists or illustrators) who work mostly on commission, the pricing is simple: when you get a significant waiting list, it’s time to raise your prices! Otherwise, it’s tricky: too low, and you won’t make any money, and people might think less of your work; too high, and no one will pay the price. As Eric said, it doesn’t have a lot to do with quality or skill, except maybe skill at marketing.

A work of art holds a subjective value for each observer. Venue is all-important. For a more universal market value? Only time will tell.

Dear Robert, The pricing of art is a crucial thing. I see a lot of artists who hand the pricing over to a gallery or agent with the caveat of “whatever you can get”. I have also seen lovely artists who are beginning to getting some notoriety and suddenly their work jumps from $1200.00 to $35,000.00! This is a difficult bell to un-ring, especially when the artist is also required to bring in buyers. Galleries can be like selling your soul, but that is another subject. Artists need to treat their career like a business. They also need to approach a gallery with the prices they get and want for their work. There are a number of artists I know who have started a new trend where they will only sell their work to a gallery and not put it in on consignment. This consignment thing has been the rule in galleries since the dawn of time. Personally, I respond better to an artists pricing when they have some thunder behind their work, they have studied, exhibited a number of times, had some press, done several interviews and have made a ‘difference’ with their work. That is to say I want to see a journey in an artist before I can accept they have sky-rocketing prices. What I do for pricing, is figure out the price of my work by the square inch. Then I do some simple math depending on the size of each canvas. That is to say, the price of a 36″ x 48″ canvas is the same as every other canvas the same size at an exhibition. I increase my prices a steady 10% each year. I offer a small “pre-exhibition discount” to early buyers and I can do pre-arranged payment plans. But other than that, I do not offer discounts or “Deals”. Artists need to also understand that art is a luxury item and usually the last thing people will buy. Also, despite any pricing glitches, resolve yourself to the fact that 95% of the population, won’t like your work. Yup, thats right, 95%!! Always, John Ferrie

It’s my guess there are two types of art buyers. Those who buy a piece because they like it and those who buy it as an investment. If you sell to the former you can charge whatever you like, if you sell to the latter then you have a responsibility to the buyer to continually raise the price of your work so their purchase is always going up in value. R.

I was wondering what qualifies you to give the answers. How did you earn the right to stand as an authority that people depend on and look up to. I think you should examine your right very closely, and maybe for a change you, yourself ask the questions and seek the answers from those who usually ask the questions. And by the way, let’s see you define quality, give it your best try, strip it naked, look it in the eye, chew it and, gently, send your wisdom forth to the needy.

My response is exactly based on what you said and relates to me. In addition, prices are based on the last several sales of similar works. It is that which determines current prices. Also,if any of my collectors should ask me about why two similar pieces have different prices, this is what I would tell them–“Gut Feeling”–it is something the print expert, Robert Blackburn, told me several years ago.

…it is in the eye of the beholder, I think… And that includes the artist! So, why not consider your own work high quality?

I had a small framed 16×20 inch acrylic painting for sale in a local art center. The clerk called me and relayed this story. An interior designer had come into the center in the morning, liked my work, but thought it was too expensive for her budgeted project. That afternoon an artist came into the center to promote an exhibit of his work and was disturbed, visibly mad, because his work was similar to mine in subject matter and size, and his were four times as expensive. He claimed I was undercutting his market. Too expensive in the morning and too cheap in the afternoon. I tell this story to my students all the time.

Haim, Why did you came to Mr. Genn’s web site to read about his oppinions? The answer to that will give you a hint how Mr Genn earned the authority you were asking about.

Why does the dung beetle push his ball of dung across the desert?

The dung beetle pushes his ball across the desert because he can. Because it’s there. Because in the pushing is the knowing. Because a dung ball covered with sand is more beautiful. Because he can get a better price for it at the oasis. Because he likes pushig sh*t around. Because the Earth rotates.

A discussion on pricing is always a good thing, and there will always be artists (like me) who will never be able to fit themselves into it. So- it’s cute and nice, but it just makes me laugh. I create work in a medium that is still barely considered real. All the fiber-based galleries I’ve ever walked into have gone out of business or changed their focus because none of them can survive as a fiber-based gallery. So a gallery to take me on doesn’t exist. I market my work myself, poorly, with no funding. I negotiate a price because I sell to people I’ve gotten to know. They all buy my work because they have an interest in me. They can see my commitment and want to help me AND own something. And they can see the quality in my construction as well as be astonished by my vision. I’m barely staying afloat right now, but that’s been true on and off for more than 30 years. Right now it’s less good rather than less bad. I have a long history of being accepted into juried shows, being published again and again and even a string of awards. The one main difference in my pricing is that I now get what I get for a much smaller piece than I used to. But it makes selling the large ones very difficult. But it’s the larger impressive ones that garner the most attention, and that got me into Fiberart International 2001. Within 20 years of my death people will be standing in a gallery/museum somewhere dumbfounded by the visible lifetime’s work of a single human individual. Guaranteed.

Wow great stuff. I really needed to hear it. Thank you very much. I will seriously consider what’s been said here. Always enjoy reading these letters. I actually pasted a couple of parts, giving credit to the source, in my Facebook page Eva Marie Originals~Holly Ulrich. Just thought it was worth sharing.

I just wanted to share a comment concerning the “Art Price Mystery.” I was involved in a co-op a few years ago but ended up having to leave. There was an artist whose work was hung close to mine; she used wall paint and plaster-of-paris on canvas to create her artwork. I work exclusively with artist-quality watercolours on Arches paper and artist-quality acrylics on prepared canvas or panel. She charged a considerably lower amount for her artwork than I charged for mine. As a result her art flew off the walls while mine wallowed. I live in a fairly small city and art is not a huge priority for the majority of the population. I ended up leaving the co-op as I wasn’t making enough money to cover the cost of renting my space and I also felt it was reflecting poorly on my work, by association, having it shown on the same wall as an artist who was using sub-standard materials. The average consumer has no idea about the quality of materials being used by artists and most don’t think to ask why there would be such a big difference in price on similarly-sized work. I made a point of noting in my advertising materials that I use artist/archival-quality materials but I don’t think the majority of the buyers who came into the gallery even read our brochures. I am now trying to get my work into a reputable gallery but just wanted to caution consumers and artists alike to always question pricing and the quality of materials. An artist builds a reputation over the course of their career and no one wants to look back and realize their work was sub-standard and stands as an example of what they do. I am now teaching art and always encourage my students to purchase the best quality supplies they can afford so their artwork will stand the test of time.

I had an invitation to a vernissage in an ice cream bar. Although the artist was well known, she did not sell any of her art works, probably because of the inappropriate location. Besides, she had to pay for the rent and drinks for the vernissage. On the other hand, the same artist sold all of her paintings at an exhibition in a huge gallerie with other painters. Some artists are despaired to sell their paintings at a lower price to earn their living. Because of the inflation, some people are not buying paintings as an investment. Today, artists do not have value in the public eyes.

Thanks for commenting on art pricing. As an artist I am always happy to know that artworks can be sold at $60,000 rather than 6,000.

Here is an article I wrote on Pricing that is on the GYST website that considers a few other reasons why prices are what they are. PRICING YOUR WORK Pricing work can be one of the strangest, most nebulous areas of an art practice to navigate. After all, the monetary value of art, unlike car repair, or say, furniture manufacturing, can’t really be quantified by any set standard. There is no perfect formula for pricing your work, but here are a few helpful hints. — Plan ahead. Don’t price things at the last minute. This can lead to outrageously high or low prices depending on your mood, current economic situation, or desire for attention. — Err on the high side. Low pricing often signifies that the artist doesn’t have confidence in their work. On the other hand, if you are an emerging artist, asking for $25,000 for a painting might be over the top. Prices can go up, but they should never go down. Getting your work to start selling might be more important than pricing things too high. Use common sense. — You should compensate yourself fairly for your time and materials. Most artists undervalue their work; often make less money on sales than they spent making work. It is a good idea to keep track of your expenses and the time spent creating the work. Use the GYST software for this. — Defend your prices. If you have kept track of your time and expenses you can defend the price of your work should your dealer or collector insist they are too high. Be realistic here, but also include your direct expenses for materials, as well as your overhead expenses such as studio rent, utilities, phone, etc. — Use an hourly wage to calculate how much your art is worth. You are a professional artist and you deserve a professional living wage. Don’t go with minimum wage numbers here. The US Department of Labor Occupational Labor Statistics lists the mean hourly wage of Fine Artists as $23.22. Use this as a starting point for figuring out your hourly wage. — Letting dealers and consultants price your work is not always the best way to go. Often a dealer will set the price of your work, but you should be a part of this discussion and it should be a joint decision. If you have your expenses calculated, you have a better chance of getting your share of the total price of the work. But remember that gallery dealers calculate things like rent, salaries for employees, and marketing costs into valuing your work. — Some excuses you will hear from dealers about pricing the work low is that you are an emerging artist, your résumé does not have the right venues, the work is small or derivative, or the dealer needs to spend more time and spend more to promote the work of emerging artists. Defend your work, show them how much it costs to make your work, refer to your hourly rate. Be negotiable, but don’t undervalue your work. — Artists with gallery experience and consistent sales histories should already have base prices set for their works. If you do not already have a track record of sales, your base price should approximate what artists in your locale (with comparable experience and sales records) charge for similar works of art. Keep in mind that even though your art is unique, experienced art professionals, like dealers, advanced collectors, consultants and agents, make price comparisons from artist to artist all the time. Being able to evaluate your art from a detached standpoint, by comparing it to that of other artists in your area, is necessary in order for your price structure to make sense in the marketplace. — Keep work that holds special meaning for you or represents critical moments in your life or career off the market. Make sure this work is not drastically different from your other art in terms of physical criteria. You may want this work as part of your own private collection. Also, often times, the tendency is to overprice such work. — When calculating your studio expenses, maintain records of the time you spend, and the cost of materials. Include overhead such as rent, utilities, professional fees, fabrication costs, assistants’ wages, transportation, postage, and shipping. Divide the total by the number of works you make a year, and average the cost per work. Then, add the sales commission. Make sure you build in a profit margin and room for a discount to notable collectors or collecting institutions. — Visit galleries, rental spaces and exhibitions, and do some research on comparable artists and artwork. Look at the exhibition checklist for these details. — If you are selling work in your studio or at a studio sale, you might want to price the work a few hundred dollars over the set price so you have space to negotiate. — You should not price your work according to what region of the country or city it is shown, or what gallery sells it. Consistent pricing is a cornerstone of a sound practice and eventually leads to successful sales. — Always have a price list available that states the full retail price. If you are selling the work yourself, always include the discount policy in writing on the price sheet. This will get you out of a bind if a buyer brings it up. Commission Splits — Usually galleries and art consultants take a 50% commission of all sales. Anything above that is highway robbery. If the commission is less than 50%, do not lower the price. Have a heart-to-heart talk with anyone who wants a higher commission. Often there will be a wide range of excuses for this, including that you are an emerging artist, your work costs more to sell, etc. Do not buy it! Many nonprofit galleries take from 0-30% commission and many leave the negotiation up to the artist. — There are special circumstances in which you may need to receive more than the 50% commission. If your work is very expensive to produce, and the fabrication is very costly (such as foundry work) or you use a specialized process, you will need to negotiate this up front, before the commission split. Prices Too High? — If people like your art enough to ask how much it costs, but do not buy, it may be because your price structure is too high. First, conduct an informal survey by asking dealers, experienced collectors, consultants, fellow artists, and agents what they think. Never arbitrarily cut prices or adjust them on the spur of the moment. Reduce your prices according to the consensus of knowledgeable people. Use your concerned judgment. Avoid having to reduce prices again by making sure your reductions are in line with or even slightly greater than the consensus opinion. Never make your art so inexpensive that people will not take it, or you, seriously. Price Increases — A price increase is in order when demand for your art regularly outstrips demand for your contemporaries’ work. The best time to increase prices is when you are experiencing a consistent degree of success and have established a proven track record of sales that has lasted for at least six months and preferably longer. Depending on what you make, and the quantity of your output, you should also be selling at least half of everything that you produce within a six-month time period. As long as sales continue and demand remains high, price increases of 10-25% per year are in order. As with any other price-setting circumstances, be able to justify all increases with facts. Never raise prices based on whimsy, personal feelings or because you feel that they have remained the same for long enough. — Your prices should remain stabilized until you have one or more of the following: increased sales, increases in the number of exhibitions you participate in, increase in the number galleries that represent you, or inflation. Online Sales — When pricing and selling your work online, you should keep the big picture in mind. Continually compare your prices to available art in your area, as well as on the Internet, and not just among your circle. Have a good selection of reasonably priced works available for purchase. Give the buyer the option of starting small, without having to risk too much money. Remember, people are just beginning to get used to the idea of shopping online for art. Hosting your work on the Internet opens the doors to a different market, which is not necessarily driven by region. Many collectors and patrons visit web site to see new artists who are outside of their area. Discounts — You should not be required to split discounts with the gallery. It is a public relations expense for the dealer and you should not be paying that expense. The gallery is usually awarding the buyer for previous patronage. Exceptions might be when the buyer purchased your work before or they are buying more than one work by you. Always get a Bill of Sale as a purchase contract between the artist and the collector. Often, a dealer will issue you a purchase order, which states both commissions and the collector who bought your work. Always maintain records of who has purchased you work, including name, mailing address, and email and phone number if possible. Beware of dealers who will not give you the information on a collector, as by law, you are entitled to a copy of the bill of sale and information on who bought the work. Market fluctuation — No matter how old you are or how long you have been making art, know that art prices fluctuate over time as a result of a variety of factors. Set your initial price structure according to the initial value of your work, your local or regional art market, but be ready to revise those prices at any time (assuming adequate justification). The more you are aware of market forces in general, and how people respond to your art in particular, the better prepared you are to maintain sensible selling prices and to maximize your sales. Karen Atkinson GYST founder http://www.gyst-ink.com

High prices posted on art cause folks to think, “What is so good about that, that it deserves such a high price?” They then look at the art for a while and, deluded by the conundrum, they often think they know why. And this causes them to buy.

Some people just want to get rid of money. And they prefer other people to see them do it.

Like BFA’s and MFA’s the proof is still in the pudding. If your work is “quality” and I can’t define it but I notice it when I see it myself. Good works sell at higher prices because it’s good, better than good, excellent. (Except in contemporary art where novelty and distortion sells) We have to stop kidding ourselves about our work. The only gold standard is still the masters and I’m not talking anyone contemporary. We may think our work measures up when actually it’s mediocre at best when compared to old great masters. They still have it over us head and shoulders. This is not to say we need to paint the same themes as they did, but we need to paint as well if not better, because we have more knowledge, experience and better materials. What we lack is the skills and determination to work as hard and dedicate our lives to this thing called art. Many today paint for many different reasons that don’t measure up. Quality, whatever it is, takes time, work thought and lots of energy and study. We just don’t put that time into it anymore.

Art pricing:)) I noticed a few years ago that the MOMA was trying to sell the notorious Marcel Duchamp urinal for a small fortune:) At the time there were no takers. I believe he famously said, “Art is what I say it is.” I guess it was…at the time:)

Thanks to Karen Atkinson for posting the article “Pricing Your Work” (above). I have printed this portion off for future reference.

I would guess that for most people, purchasing art is not an investment; Purchasing art is to have the pleasure of seeing it over & over because it “speaks” to you in some special way. It doesn’t always have to have a “master’s touch”, sometimes it just has to touch its “master”.

WOW! What a great discussion of a big art mystery! Thanks.

Correction: In my comments about portraiture I did not mean to promote a photographer cannot capture the essense of individual. My daughter is a highly successful commercial photographer who might take umbrage with my earlier comments. I meant to emphasize a painter pursues a different esthetic not achieved by photography … and God knows, it has its place even artists cannot depict. Each has its place, its calling, its purity of purpose. Apologies ….

Fascinating the comments on “pricing’. As a volunteer in an Art Gallery I get a chance to check out prices on all kinds of art. This week the current show was some Photographic works. What puzzled me was that the artist/photographer had priced most of these medium sized framed prints at $200.00, and so far has sold two. Two others on display are priced at $1500.00, subject matter a bird. Same size and framing as all the others. So visitors noticed and commented and asked why. One thing is that often a painter liking a painting (or his mother likes it) prices it “high” for the reason of discouraging purchase. Since everything in our gallery must be for sale, everything is priced. We regulars try to keep our prices up to a level that is credible for the gallery, and to the level of our expertise or lack of it. Since it is run by an Arts Council and not a regular commercial gallery there is less control over our pricing. It’s the artists who nudge each other to “charge more” reminding the new-bies that they have to pay a commission mon sales, and take into account the cost of the framing. Being puzzled at to what to charge for one, I asked a friend who flippantly told me to ‘double the price”, I did and the painting sold! I suspect a few people think a lower price means the painting is “not as good as” the others. So for people like me who mat and frame their own work,(sometimes badly) the lesson is to try and do the best I can or afford professional framing and charge more! I am always surprised at your critics, Robert, because I find all your letters delightful and there’s much of interest to read and to learn in each and everyone. I love seeing examples of art from around the continent and world and to read these far flung artists ideas on art. A young volunteer I spoke to yesterday grumbled she had just graduated from High School and forgotten most of what she had learned. I told her she didn’t go to school to learn “stuff” but to “learn how to learn”, that it goes on for a lifetime. She smiled and agreed that I had a point there. My point of learning this week was to watch a demo in painting in oil, “often and small” was this artist’s mantra. Like a true artists she happily shared so much with us, her materials, her palette, her brushes and were to get reasonably priced pochade boxes made to order. She also told us she auctions off her paintings on E-Bay, non of them priced over $100, and sells them all. Having not touched oils in many decades I am now pumped up to try them again with the new non odourous thinners, on small canvases or canvas boards. Should be fun!

Notoriety, media attention and hoopla cause prices to rise, not the quality of the piece. If an artist is getting lots of press and his name is on the lips of buyers, the price will rise. If spectacle is involved the price may rise. Age of a piece, and the artist, may cause the price to rise. Scarcity will affect price. If there isn’t any more being made by an artist of note. For the mass majority, they know little about quality but they swear they know what they like. And they are right. “Experts” look for other things because they have some knowledge of the making of an art piece. They will pay more. Joe buyer will pay what he can afford, if the rent is paid this month the he has food on the table. Art which is selling for thousands, more than likely, will be ‘admired’ and passed on by the average buyer. The fool with money and worried about prestige will fork over large green on trash if it’s the flavor of the month and raises his status. Price, in the long run is irrelevant and if anything worth a smile. If they get the selling price, more power to them. In all, we buy what we can afford, not the best.

There is Art pricing, and then there is selling your Art. Whatever your art form it must be marketed and sold. In the short term, it is the marketing and sales that moves the works onto a clients wall at whatever price people will pay. Without the marketing and sales, brilliant works remain in studios whatever the price. With marketing and sales, appalling schlock is sold at wild prices. In the long term, pricing becomes set by the collector market, itself a sophisticated world of hustle and marketing. Picasso was a master hustler and marketer. He was very prolific and never shied from selling works directly, in a cafe or in any manner available. Van Gogh never marketed or sold. His brother, an art dealer, barely sold any of his work at any price. The dung beetle gets her dung from where the dung is. Eggs are laid. The dung is rolled elsewhere (Don’t want to get stepped on next time the elephant comes by!) and buried deep. The dung feeds the young uns and keeps the bug eaters away.

I’m just having my kitchen remodelled, and I was considering the daily rates of the plumber, electrician etc, and I have decided that my skills, having taken many years and a masters degree to obtain, are worth at least the same as theirs. Now that I have made the decision to be a full-time professional artist I will be charging my time, materials and expenses on this basis as my starter point, and feel I can easily justify and feel confident in my prices.

The question of value and pricing for art has been one that stumped me for years. As an artist and collector, I’ve walked many museums, shows, and galleries and read hundreds of books trying to determine what makes “fine” art. I’ve lamented to see works of incredible skill and artistic inspiration seemingly ignored over others that appeared to have little care or thought put into their execution. Yes, exposure and marketing are incredibly important as artwork must be experienced to be appreciated, but what I came to realize is that the important works of art are the ones that ultimately become influential, that change how people look at a subject and change what people do as a result. Most of the original French Impressionists were rejected in their own time, and forced to band together to sponsor their own shows when they were rejected by the official salons. Many of these artists who are now regarded as Masters were quite literally starving artists in their own time, unable to even pay for a fresh piece canvas or put food on their family’s table. Over a longer time frame many more popular and well-compensated artists of their time were forgotten, whereas the early Impressionists ultimately became recognized for having influenced an entirely new genre of art and generations of artists who would follow in their path. Another case in point is the Hudson River and Rocky Mountain School landscape painters, like Albert Bierstadt who’s highly skilled work initially captured the public’s attention and thrilled collectors. His canvases fetched thousands and even tens-of-thousands of dollars each a hundred years ago, only to fall out of favor when collector’s interests shifted to newer genres. Ultimately however, the power and emotion captured in Bierstadt’s works was again recognized as highly influential not just to art, but to visualizing the concept of American wilderness and to the people who were so moved by it that they worked to conserve the scenery of the American west for future generations.