Archived Comments
Enjoy the past comments below for The closed-mouth convention…
Au contraire mon ami! I love to paint women with mouth “ajar” so to speak. It is sexy if done correctly. I have a favorite model that, if you can believe it, specializes in posing with her mouth slightly open. When she initially starts, it’s a little disconcerting and looks awkward at first, but as we progress with the painting, it’s the most natural thing. She’s good, believe me. Not everyone can do it. I have also had models who smile, if I ask, with little or no trouble. I believe this fact may be due to bad teeth in past generations, plus which it is very hard to keep a good humor while posing. It may sound sexist, but when I have a model that can do it, I encourage it. I do agree that many portraits I’ve seen with smiles have a look of being done from photos, but that is on a case by case basis. Mary Cassatt painted children with open mouth and smiles, teeth and all and it looks perfectly natural. The object of any artist is to get a natural likeness of the sitter and If they show teeth, so be it. It remains with the artist’s skill not to make it look unnatural.
Well, one needs to look no further than Vermeer and the Girl With The Pearl Earring to see that it can be done and with flattery. But yes, I would say that 99% of the time we should leave the teeth out of it.
I’m working on a series of paintings of women having orgasms. Try to imagine that with eyes open, mouths closed! And, yes — I’m using photographs. Just try to find model who can sustain that for the length of several sittings! Although, if I ever do find one… It just occurred to me — they’re all faking it!
If the person has a nice smile, why not paint it! But you have to paint the teeth the way they look, not perfectly uniform, not hard-edged (ahem!) and not white except possibly for a highlight. If you paint teeth and the sclera of eyes white, the person will look manic.
“The wooden (teeth) were reserved for senators and congressmen.” Indeed. There are always some subtle, pseudo-truthful items in these letters. This was my favorite in this one. Perhaps we need a letter on “wooden heads.”
You give me pause. I had never even thought of this aspect in painting but in reviewing the portraits I have done I noticed they were all painted with the mouths closed – except for my two self portraits as well as the self portrait I’m working on now. Maybe that’s why I’m having so much trouble with it, among other things. Dallas, TX
“Stupid people” is a bit insinsitive.
yes, stupid people are often insensitive
While it may have been true in the past that portraits were done with the mouths closed, I disagree that is the case now. So many children have charming smiles which their parents’ can’t get enough of in photos or paintings. I think with dental/orthodontic care improvements over the years, more people are delighted to share those pearly whites. Life is too serious, why not remember someone looking happy or jovial? From Kennesaw, GA, USA
How does this apply to serious portrait photography?
While I generally agree about teeth, there are always exceptions. An open mouth may suggest something of a moment in time, a narrative and/or subjects state of mind!
I think that in this era that notion of not having smiling or laughing people in paintings does not seem to apply anymore.Dentistry has improved since those early painters.Why is it not appropriate to paint smiling and laughing faces when they are the most pleasing sights to see .They are part of human nature and looking at a painting with these facial expressions do they not also present a mystery of what they are smiling about that the viewer would want to share.It is true that it is hard to capture that when you have a sitter to have them maintain their happy countenance for a long time until they become plastic as it were.What is wrong with painting from a picture when now a days they are using these modern technology directly to get their ideas for their own work?I do think that we will be missing a challenging work if we shun from doing them. From Toronto, ON, Canada
New Jersey does not permit you to smile for the photo on your driver’s license. Same reason :) ? Their reason is for issues of facial recognition. You look different when you smile.
To me teeth in a painting look like Aspirins in a row, but I had one little girl who refused to be painted any other way. If you grey them down or give then a slight yellow cast no one is happy either. What do you do with people who still insist on being painted with a toothy grin?
Well I do fast sketches portraits my mantra is I dont do teeth and I dont do wrinkles and you look ten years younger. I have a ball doing these sketches, it is amazing how these fast drawings gives you a chance to analyze people. The most fun was when I did our MPP and I told him to keep his mouth shut probably something a lot people might have wanted to say to him but couldnt.
Uncovering the teeth in people portraits makes them look like Cheshire Cats….now, in animals it’s a different tail.
One of the worst portraits I ever saw, was one painted in tribute to a hardworking lady. She had volunteered for many years in a Legion in Calgary, so they got one of their artist members to paint a portrait. Done from a photograph, the artist painted every wrinkle and terrible looking false teeth showing in a ghoulish grin. It wasnt a tribute….
Guess what? Robert’s having a “go” at all of you. “Teeth or no teeth?…” Give it a rest. The only rule for art is there is no rule not worth breaking.
I teach figurative art to freshman/sophomore college level students. There is always a series on portrait and caricature. For portrait I universally encourage avoiding teeth because, just like any issue involving detail – they don’t understand that less is more. The fact is that creating a natural looking painting of an open mouth smile that does not look like some sort of grimace requires skill and reserve that only comes with experience. In caricature, you can get away with teeth because the cornerstone technique is exaggeration.
If it’s good enough for New Jersey, it’s good enough for me.
Speaking of painting (or drawing) mouths, I illustrated a small children’s book recently (simple line drawings), and fortunately put a healthy mustache on the main (and only human) character’s face. I have no training in illustration and now admire illustrators all the more. At any rate, the mustache was a super idea.
So, it seems to be that in all of art history, to even include “super realism”, almost nobody has developed the talent and the technique for the big friendly smile. Could it be another failure of the “art educational” system? Or just, nobody has achieved the “accepted convention”? It’s no wonder such a large portion of the products found at so many “art fairs” look so much the same — almost like they’ve all been done by just a few persons. (And “product” is definitely the appropriate word.) If you can’t handle teeth, maybe you need to rethink your “production system”. “Oh, it’s too difficult for me. I’d much rather just stick with something I already know. Stuff that other people told me, because they must be right.” Let’s all go to “art skool” and learn how to do it like everyone else. There’s always safety in numbers, and if everybody’s doing it the “accepted way”, why change? Discussions like this remind me of just how much appreciation I have always maintained for the rule breakers. And how I long ago realized that every single painter I have ever admired did something differently. Broke the rules, burned the book, and left behind the herd. It can be dangerous and lonely. And sometimes, your stuff won’t be “economically viable”, until after you die — and you are no longer a threat to the established conventions. Then you are magically transformed into “discovered genius”, and Southeby’s gets the auction! I have a goal marker for my own success. It has nothing to do with the salability or “value” placed upon my output by the conventionalists. I’ll know when I’ve achieved my standard of success. And, I’ll keep that close, until it happens.
Fingernails. Natural, unpainted fingernails… That’s what gives me a lot of trouble.
I would like to know if “sure sign of being painted from a photo” is considered a bad thing? This is the age of technology, after all. It is nearly the only way to paint a portrait of a small child in my world….and they look super adorable with their little open mouthed expressions.
Francis Bacon loved to paint people with their mouths wide open. In his words, he considered the inside of the mouth to be very beautiful.
If you’re wearing the smock of a commercial or “hired” artist, you give the customers what they want, and save your “artistic visionary integrity” for your home studio. If you were to do a pet portrait, would you allow yourself to work from photographs, or would you insist that “Maxie-Poo-Poo” be trained to sit perfectly posed while your perform your magical renditions?
The single resounding theme from my clients has been I wont sit [for the painting process]. There was a time when I, like many of you, considered the use of photographs a form of cheating. Now, many paintings later, I know the truth that photographs often provide inadequate information. Whether painting live or from a photograph, it takes skill to paint a good portrait. Working from the live model has its own stressors and complications; the live model provides unequivocal information that the best of photographs may obscure, yet the model in the photograph faithfully maintains the pose in the same light for as long as is needed. I havent lost my passion for working from life. I have enormous respect for my fellow portrait artists. Poughkeepsie, NY
I can’t wait to see and hear all of the “woe is unto us and art”, when 3-D gets more attention. Models “sitting” in the computer screen. Guess what? I’m already doing it!
What is the rule for painting images of public figures, like the “Mrs. Bean” above? I’m a portrait painter and always ask a model for permission to paint their image. Is painting and profiting from a public person allowed?
Artists Studios – brilliant Sara Genn. Thank you.
When is your daughter going to put these wonderful photos of artist studios into a book? Let me know, I’ll be the first in line to buy a copy.
The one great exception I can think of is the Vermeer “Girl with a Pearl Earring.”
My mother said that she was taught as a young child that it was ladylike to pose for a portrait with mouth closed. I recently went through old family photos that went back 4 generations and there wasn’t a smile anywhere. I always thought that it was because they led such a hard life and there wasn’t much to smile about, but after reading the comments about lack of good dental care “way back when”, that makes a lot more sense.
As a portrait artist I have to say that many times a persons personality is found in in their smile. Teeth are hard to paint, closed mouth is much easier. I do not need a photo to paint teeth. I do need to study the person and lock in a memory.
Absolutely paint a portrait without teeth. But sometimes it simply cannot be avoided. This was a posthumous portrait with the only decent reference using a 5×7 passport photo. I had to totally construct this pose because there simply was nothing else. If one must paint teeth the worst crime is painting stark white teeth – they aren’t, especially with comparable values. Teeth are either in shades of gray and/or beige. (Neither are eyes for that matter; you risk making the person a zombie or a Zoom ad). Teeth are as individual as any other feature and great care must be taken to render the line of teeth exact, not each tooth … you shouldn’t do orthodontist work in depicting your subject. If any minor corrections are made to give the subject a more pleasing smile don’t go so far as to paint the likeness unrecognizable.
I am constantly amazed at the great material and informative responses in this blog. It has valuable first hand info, humor and opinion by artists who actually work at the profession. Thank you.
oooh, I see – maybe this explains why, when I joined ‘Julia Kay’s Portrait Party’ (on Flickr) that I was asked to not only post photos where I smile, because many members don’t like to paint “teeth”. This was a difficult task – I always seem to smile on photos. ;-) Another thought – in Africa I often encountered the idea you have to look serious for a photo or you would ruin it. Maybe this idea also existed in the Western world in earlier centuries.
My art instructor is in love with Yue Minjun the Chinese sculptor who does laughing men. He thinks it’s extra good to put more than enough teeth into people and do them carefully. OK?
I painted children’s portraits over several years and often had this discussion with parents, who wanted their children’s happy nature to shine through. I said that a photograph of a laughing or smiling child was one thing, but a portrait painted over a couple of hours was a different animal. The aim of a portrait is to capture the relaxed and natural presence of the subject, not a fleeting moment.
Dogs Heading East oil painting, 20 x 20 inches by Robin Leddy Giustina |
Left on my own, I always photograph my subjects going about their lives with their mouths however they are. Catching the moment in a portrait is a painting challenge I love. The portrait is always lively. Mouths closed are always commissioned work, where the client has, ironically, too much to say.