Identical twins

Good letter and an interest of mine has been the growth of my art by means of making multiple copies of a subject. Monet for instance had obviously no problem painting the same pond what 60-100 times ? Western artists (I grew up in the good old USA) have slight appreciation for the way Asian art is taught by means of copying. The master paints a “masterpiece” and the student copies this until the master is satisfied he has the proper technique. Then the student can paint in his own way if he so chooses. In the western method the emphasis in being “original” is put forth first. The student is expected to have “the gift” of an artist. Many an aspiring artist would benefit from the Asian way and become better at creative expression by copying a masters art.

An acquaintance once asked me to make a copy of a painting, from a photo, of a contemporary California artist whose name I’ve long forgotten. Not knowing the medium used in the original, I made the painting in acrylics, on canvas. I did not sign the painting with the artists name or my own. I had no guilt feelings about doing this as I paid for the painting materials from my own funds. I received no money for doing this copy of this painting. I’ve never done another since.

We have powerful rising country here with all good things happening day by day it getting better. You watch!!! China new world center for art soon.

China make great artist of future as we know how to work and not waste time. We get things done. Did you see our bridges over rivers nicely?

I love when clients ask for me to repeat a beloved painting that has been sold and my response to them is similar to yours, Robert… that I can recreate the theme and the vibe but that no two paintings are exactly the same. Because so much of my tree themed art has a homogenous feel to it, I don’t feel that this diminishes the value or importance of any previously sold works. Another thing I do is to offer clients a pick-and-choose kind of option. They might choose the color palette of one piece, the flower style of another, a sun rather than a moon, three trees rather than two, etc. They can look at what I have available and choose their own combination of elements and this often brings me to new creative combinations for my work that I’d not considered.

“It just doesn’t seem right,” says Steve Koch, “to make a copy just for money.” I say humbug. What about Rembrant’s etchings or T. Lautrec prints, Dürer’s etchings or Picasso lithographs? With a statement like this you dump the whole section of fine art to trash.

Yes, but what you are doing is not a copy, but a new statement or a continued statement about the same subject. I’ve been saying for years that an artist can do a hundred paintings from the same subject, each finding some new discovery or nuance, if the artists is approaching the subject with fresh curiosity and intent for each. Keep up the good work.

Now you are only one in world who knows so much (about art) because practical person who work hard and quite rich always having happy time looking forward and study well. Thank you. Please come back to China often if you wish.

When a scene piques my interest, I find that the painting I create is often the one most noticed by studio visitors. Those paintings are also the ones that leave with a new owner fairly quickly, often before I am ready to let them go. It is only natural to keep painting different versions; each one is unique and as I become more and more familiar with the subject, I often find myself experimenting with palette, looser strokes, etc. Quite often the fifth version is as fresh as the first. I try to vary sizes, but not always. If a fellow artist wonders aloud why I am painting those haybales again, I wonder to myself why they aren’t at their easels

It is an artist’s right to develop motifs in any direction, even the same direction.

Hand-pulled etchings and lithographs in a numbered edition are considered to be original works of art. Each print is exactly the same. Doing another rendition of one of your originals, is another original.

I once painted a man’s childhood home from a tiny photograph and his description. The home was long gone. When he got it he cried and his brother’s and sisters wanted one too. After the third one, which involved a lot of vodka early in the day to finish, I referred the rest of the family to a photography studio here which took pictures of the painting and made full size replicas. I’ll never do it again.

It seems to me that this, wanting a copy of an existing work, is the best reason and justification for giclee’s, n’est pas?

I agree with Plato. I have been asked to do similar/same paintings and each time I have repeated a painting it does come out different as my response to the scene is different. Color and light will change. I tell them it cannot be identical.

Here is a question from my business manager (my husband) and I’m so fortunate to have his help! : If a painting has won an award, acclaim, whatever, is it appropriate to raise it’s price?.

Painting a series of the same subject matter was encouraged in the 1980s as artists explored a given topic. While not quite identical twins an acceptable series of siblings. Not true?

Can u do something on painting on mylar? W ink? Oil? Acrylic? Oil stick? Have been asked to paint 6 tall panels to be hung and backlit, inside the windows in Toronto’s historical MacKenzie House for Nuit Blanche. Was told mylar would be the best material to back lite. Any ideas?

I sell the studies and small works and so many of them, that I sometimes lose one in storage or to theft, and then I must go to my buyer and apologize and tell him I will make a near-identical copy if that will work, at the same price as the ready-to-go painting that disappeared. The idea of a thing being custom made for them pleases them and thanks to good scans I can work from my original and do just fine. I think that as long as everyone involved is pleased the issue is moot

I see no problem with “repainting” an original work to make a “copy”. The artist doing this might “improve” on the “original” painting.

I’ve painted lots of copies of my own work. One painting I sold 4 times. It was of a boat. People like boats. I find that hilarious. Anyway, I have no problem with self reference, the painting is still an original.

I have paintings where I was really in the spirit of the work and strokes seem to have come from above. There is not way I could repeat that work,even if I wanted to.

After hearing many arguments and debates about this my hard rule is that it is entirely the artist’s own decision what they do with their own images. Sometimes I like one idea or image so much that I make a few repetitions of a scene. I happen to like making slight variations so I can explore further ideas. But if I really had a desire to do replicas, I’d do replicas and would make it clear that they are replicas. As long as the artist is open of what the painting is, it’s their honest work. Another thing is what certain client niche likes or dislikes, as well as what galleries and other business partners deem acceptable. I had someone call a gallery where I had paintings to tell them that there was the same scene that they had, in a smaller size in another gallery (thank goodness for such friends). Unfortunately, I used the same title which caused confusion so I apologized and explained the situation. When doing business with other people it is critical to understand expectations and respect all agreements. But, it is also critical to know that it is entirely up to the artist to decide what they will paint – circumstances, rights and consequences are our own. Thanks to Robert and all the contributors to Painter’s Keys for making it possible for us to learn what’s out there!

I couldn’t copy my own work either, nor would I want to. Having declined some tempting offers on a favorite painting I finally succumbed to the giclee bandwagon to satisfy one persistent gentleman. He wanted this specific image (attached) and was happy to pay for the costs of producing a giclee. Since the deed was done what is terribly wrong with a few more? We can rehash the whole giclee argument, and of course we want our originals to sell. But there are valid reasons for reproductions beyond money.

Two things I think you should consider – One- paint the copy but don’t worry if it isn’t an exact copy. Make a close second painting. The Client will love it anyway. Unless they have the original in front of them, they won’t know the difference. Also they will be getting an original anyway. Two- tell them you have photos of the area originally painted and you would use them to make an almost copy from these references. Believe me they will love it also. I had a similar situation. One painting sold, then another client wanted it. I did as suggested above and they loved it more than the original.

Last November I had a small painting that sold 3 times in a day. It was if a copper vessel on fall leaves. I kept the original subject and redid the leaves in color and type. All were original but feed off the first painting. All were very pleased.

A few months ago, I did a series of paintings of people and dogs that I was anticipating sending to one of my galleries. While working on the series, a penpal – someone in another country that I “met” through your letters, and with whom I have been corresponding for several years (we are about the same age, love dogs, love art, and would likely be best friends if we ever met) – sent me an image that was perfect for this series of paintings, and a good representation of her dog. I asked if I could use her photo as a reference, and then I painted a second version (I told her that I wasn’t entirely happy with the first painting, but didn’t want to ruin it by fiddling with it, and asked her to identify the version she preferred). And yes, I used the original reference photo for both versions of the painting. She doesn’t know it yet, but she will be receiving her preferred version of the painting for her birthday.

I always do several studies for a painting using different formats- squares, rectangles and verticals. If I haven’t satisfied the excitement I felt when first deciding to paint the scene, I could keep at it, but, no two paintings will ever be exact.

answer for Michelle Jahraus – if you sell one painting for a higher price, what do you say to other buyers…that they are getting a lesser work? Does that sound like a good business if you were a client?

I had to copy a piece several years back for a show. I’d mailed original paintings from Nova Scotia to Oregon, rolled. When they arrived, the tube was smashed and the paintings were irrevocably damaged. In a hurried fashion, I put together a new version, however I ended up extremely disappointed in it. It needed to be exactly the same — and not only could I not replicate it, it had lost the magic of the original. I won’t even try to duplicate work anymore, now if someone wants a copy I do what everyone where is talking about, offer something similar with the same spirit in mind. On another note, I no longer ship in tubes, I ship flat. (Insurance had been purchased for the ruined pieces, however the US postal service refused to pay stating that you can’t prove the value of art. I fought with them over a year and finally had to just write off the loss.)

I once received a commission for a pair of identical paintings. I painted them for two collectors who had shared a memorable fishing trip, but had no pictures. It was a landscape painting of an area of Alaska which I could see, but had not visited because I had no boat. It was an interesting challenge, doing the same scene, one right after the other, then going back and tweaking them for a near identical look in watercolor. The money was good, and since I brought them both along at the same time, it didn’t feel like copying, more like Sumi-E where each brush stroke is considered, planned, practiced. That experience has improved my work through the repetition of the process of planning every move, yet keeping each gesture fresh and spontaneous. It did not feel like production, rather a unique exercise of control and concentration.

In the past few years I feel that I want to go back to some of my old paintings and paint new versions. Perhaps this is like visiting with a child that has since left home, changed a bit and has new stories to tell. Maybe there will be series of those revisited paintings over years, and hopefully they will have an interesting story to tell.

On the whole I agree with the very sensible comments on the problems of copying one’s own work, particularly the fact, which I have discovered in merely dealing with the same subject, that one can solve certain questions the second time around which were troublesome in the first version. However, let us not forget that two memorable instances of copies are Van Gogh’s three “copies” of his Bedroom, for three different people, and Veronese’s “Mars and Venus United by Love,” one of which hangs in the Hermitage now I believe and the other at the Frick. My husband, Chaim Koppelman discovered this fact in 1952 when he was doing a copy of the Venus and Mars then hanging at the Met in NYC. The horse was a little different in the Russian version, and the expression on Venus’s face was as puzzling as ever.

To do a sucessful copy of one’s own painting depends on your style. In brief,working in a loose spontanious fashion would be harder to copy than say a photo realist style. The difficulty with the loose style is to try and repeat all those juicy spontanious brushstokes and marks as in the original painting, whereas with the more realist style, brushstrokes are not an issue, only slavish copy. I agree with the idea of doing another painting of the same subject rather than attempting to do a copy.