The Dunning-Kruger Effect

The Dunning-Kruger Effect is in full swing among less serious social artists. Why – because no one calls a spade a spade. All work is just great and everyone loves everyone’s work. What’s worse is that the Effect has its ultimate effect of elevating poor-quality artists into teachers.

…”Humility is to know ones limitations”.

Agree with Mike, and I would add that in my town it seems teachers are those who are liked on a social level, but have little real artistic skills or experience.

In Lake Wobegon all the people are above average. We know that can’t be true. Yet we encourage those that are way below average and will likely stay there. None of like to be below average. We want to do better if we can. If we have the talent, the drive, the passion, work-ethic, the time, etc we can rise above incompetence or below average. Art is unlike other endeavors where you quickly find out that you just can’t do it. Golf, baseball, basketball are such endeavors where you find quickly that you won’t make it as a professional. To recognize that you just are not good enough is hard to take personally. Art, unfortunately, does not have a way to cull out the incompetent. No one will tell you that your work is bad. You have to determine that on your own.

That photo of Novak Djokovak makes me hurt. There are several problems with art: it is a wonderful pastime for lovers of art. It’s democratic in that anyone can pick up some supplies and try their hand at it. Quality is subjective in the same manner beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The worst thing that can happen to hobbyists is when they sell a piece at the local crafts fair. They are convinced their work is on a par with the greats and thereafter become longsuffering artists that aren’t appreciated. I’m not surprised this study was conducted in the US, or the era. There was an unfortunate mindset in education during that time that poor self esteem contributed to inferior academic performance. Educators insisted if we told the little darlings “You’re wonderful!” they would be. That translated into promoting students when they should have been held back and awarding unearned high grades. We still have some of that. Instead of demanding competence standards were lowered. Regardless, the best in any vocation will arise in driven people who are willing to persevere, do the work, and challenge their own skill.

I noticed this effect on the ski slopes. When I lived many years in Sun Valley, Idaho, I was always amazed at how tourists overestimated their skiing prowess. They then were taken down the slope in the ski patrol sled, or, would suffer injury.

As an art instructor I found this letter so insightful. It explains what I have observed so many time–over confident incompetents who need to back up and really see what they’re doing. Why is it that some simply “get it” and others don’t?

I’ve been mulling the dunning kruger effect for a few days now. Admittedly it makes me a like distrustful of my own self evaluation. However, a broader view leads me to conclude that in all aspects of my life, as with my painting, questioning my own competence is precisely what drives me to consider, explore, and improve. Indeed, these are wonderful means to enriching my life. Thanks for the reminder.

Those who think they know it all are really annoying to those of us who actually do.

I guess it sounds better to tell someone that they are a Dunning-Kruger. And maybe I should try telling my boss that I have to go for a quick Mednick after lunch…

I have been teaching workshops for many years and often wondered why someone with just a couple of workshops under their belt, and in my mind, clearly a ways to go, would ask me how to approach a gallery.

Love this…Makes me happy …never satisfied is a good thing! Once in a while a painting makes me feel like it encompasses all of what I’ve learned in a good way. But each painting is a lesson and a challenge, and always room for improvement. Is not always linear, but jumps around. I very much enjoy your letters. They are thoughtful and informed and contain meat for those of us with teeth.

The Dunning-Kruger Effect applies to me. Once I was a brilliant rising star artist, now I’m an old mediocre artist, what happened? If it wasn’t for the fact that I can’t leave the painting alone and walk away from it, I would have given up this gig a long time ago and lived a normal life. Being an artist is like living in the rift of time and space (Thats a Dr Who reference). It means we live in the shadowlands never sure of our footing.

Maybe, you are right about those who think that theirs are good enough. Mine is not good enough. As a student my work was on the wall with others and I had a paint brush fixing it. Even today, I am a harsh critic of my art.

This is the trouble with art. I see it all the time in workshops and in galleries. It is one of the only fields where even very smart people are so befuddled that they will pay a lot of money for really shoddy work–and show it proudly.

I’m a student in university who aspires to a career in some sort of visual art. This material you present is so valuable to me. I do not hear of this sort of view as Dunning Kruger in my art appreciation classes.

In our high-school they let everybody pass pretty well because their standards are so low and they don’t want to hurt anyones feelings

In Mike Barr’s remark above where Dunning Kruger is in effect among not so serious hobby painters I’ve noted that professional instructors are always trying to get them to become more professional. Maybe the pros should stop doing this and just kid the amateurs along and let them be happy.

Wilson – that’s just what teachers and workshop leaders do here.. as a result they get the same people coming back for years to workshops and classes for not much real benefit apart from the social aspect of it all… which of course is important for a lot of people and nothing wrong with that.

I’m not convinced that applying D-K to artists is that clear-cut because I think Art is too subjective. Do buyers of art then also suffer from the D-K effect? I’m running a personal experiment right now. I have a 14″ x 10″ canvas painted in Cerulean Blue (quite an expensive pigment). It’s just a flat panel of blue, but I explain it’s an expensive pigment and I’ve titled the piece “Not Yellow”. I have no intention of selling, however you would be surprised at the interest it has generated!

I find this rather ironic considering someone’s painting of “donuts” can sell for loads even though it’s something anyone can do. But it does sell for a ridiculous amount and it’s popular only because of the backing of a name. Someone said it best: “How can anyone criticise art? You put a brick in the Tate today and it’s art.”

When things start to get you down don’t try to explain yourself make a nice cup of tea, sit down and relax. Everything come’s out in the wash.

By the way, I like featured artist Ulrich Gleiter’s painting, “Three Boats”, very gutsy.

It’s good to think on these esoteric things now and again. I wonder who is the judge of “good enough” ? or possibly even “really good” ?

This blog gets more intelligent responses than any other art blog on the net. And a few dumb ones too. Thank you to everyone who contributes. I always learn a lot. Sussex, UK

Dear Paula Green-with-envy (above) A brick IS art when it’s put in the Tate.

Consider an incompetent artist who tends to overestimate her skill; her skill ‘level’ must be compared to a standard in order to have a reference point; what is that standard? The summation of historical skill as compiled…by whom? The cultural norm of her day? Other artists? Curators? Sales? Consider the highly competent artist who underestimates her skill; Is she highly skilled because she is a prodigy? Is she highly skilled because of years of academic instruction? Is she highly skilled because of dogged persistence? The question again begs a reference point from which either we or she can determine the ‘level’ of her skill in order to determine whether she is actually underestimating her skill or perhaps is ‘actually’ correctly evaluating her level of skill. Consider the range of sale prices of the paintings of a competent, selling artist, and then consider that same range of sale prices just minutes after the news of this artist’s demise becomes public. In many cases this range doubles. Did this artist over-estimate or under-estimate her skill level? Another complexity is the skewed perspective of skill level when ‘branding’ comes into play. Picasso had already mastered many media and styles as a young prodigy, as determined by, I must guess, his patrons, his galleries, the media, his self-promotion, etc. At some point he is able to begin assembling goat-heads on broomsticks stuck in up-turned washtubs as art, and there are many who clamored, and continue to clamor, to pay exorbitant sums for this. Apart from the branding of Picasso’s name, I doubt we would see the skill level in some of his art. Picasso, from what I have read, never underestimated his level of skill, and yet he could produce both highly skilled work as well as some real crap. Whether our opinions of our work overestimates or underestimates our level of skill, it is nothing more than a pattern of thought if divorced from a standard or reference point of skill by which we can evaluate the ‘correctness’ of the artist’s opinion. I would want to know how to derive that reference point.

Mike Barr, people coming back for classes for years IS THE benefit – can’t you see? Robert Sesco – I enjoyed your essay, it’s very thoughtful. I am an admirer of Picasso – his life story is an amazing case study for any creative person.

I can only add that I could not agree more with Dunning-Kruger.

For the Paula Green/Bart Keller thread… Sorry Bart, but a brick is a brick is a brick, even in the Tate! Thanks for bringing me a smile this morning.

I started life drawing at the age of 16 that was in 1979, England at Leek College of Art and Design. We were all so embarrassed and giggled at the 50 year old male model who was allowed to wear a pouch over his privates, which is what made us giggle. Eventually our instructor dismissed the model for two weeks on full pay and we had to model for each other – nude or in our swim suits we could choose. We learnt quickly to treat our models with the up most respect, its not an easy job after all. Although, we could never quite figure out why our female models could not wear a pouch over their privates, after all the equal opportunities act was brand new. But who were we to question the ancient rules of the Royal Academy, after all the modern art colleges did not have real skeletons or huge pure white plaster of paris Greek Gods (with fig leaves) or horses to draw from. Sincerely, JaneWilcoxson.com

I think that I will never achieve my ambition of becoming a Rembrandt or a Vermeer though when I went to art school in France that is exactly what I wanted to do. Early on I searched and searched for teachers who could train me in the classical style. Most practicing artists who had gone that classical route and were now teachers were into experimental art and had left the classical stuff far behind. That’s going back 35 years or so. I’ve pushed myself hard since then. My internal critic is lenient and harsh. I’m satisfied with some parts of work and disappointed with others. I’ve sold quite a few pieces and wonder sometimes if people have made a mistake in buying them. Lastly I will not stop painting. I don’t think I will ever find a “comfort zone” where I can guarantee the outcome of any brush to easel. I think I will always try to imagine where I want to go and do my best to get there. Better that someone produce less than Met work than to pay too much heed to a harsh critic and not try at all.

I draw because I must, but I will not suffer myself to fall into complacency. I keep the scribbles and awful work to remind myself of where I’ve been and how far I have to go. When I was younger I was passably good at most things, but I’ve realized there is no satisfaction in being passably good. I do not wish for accolades, indeed, I avoid them for fear I will succumb to ego. I’ve come to peace with popular art, it no longer annoys me, I think because I’ve realized that it is emotion without skill, but lack of skill does not negate the emotion and that is what people are responding to. I cannot throw stones at a happy face, it’s a pointless and fruitless action. People know great art when they see it, because it takes the breath away, it stands on it’s own. In the absence of great art, well, happy faces will fill the void. It’s up to each of us to lead by example, to put only our best effort forward and give constructive criticism to those that will listen.

Many beginning artists overestimate their skills. However, if they use that overconfidence to spur them to continue to paint, they may become good at it. I’d rather see that than people who stop painting because of low self-esteem. I know a hundred times what I did when I started, but it seems like the more you know, the more there is to know. We should all just do as well as we can.

Fabulous thoughts and comments- they show depth and range. I believe I may have stumbled upon my kind of place! Thank you!

Thanks so much for putting the painting by Ulrich Gleiter at the end of the clickbacks. It’s a perfect example of a brilliant painting: immediate, fresh, original – the style of brushwork matches the sudden impact of the wave. The artist’s skill is in capturing the momentary event with great big strokes and striking color. Good subject.

hey Rick – I couldn’t agree more! (lol)

When this letter arrived last week I was so depressed I didn’t even open it. The reason? I and at least one other person I know of had just had experience of the Dunning-Kruger effect, from one person on behalf of another! We had been asked for feedback on a video that had been made of our club’s activities. The introductory graphics were good, except for the most important name being misspelled, and a statement that was simply wrong. The rest was mediocre: no colour correction and terrible sound. We both tried to be polite, and kept it simple, so the message would be clear: he’s going to have to do better than this. We were very sharply put in our places by the one who had hired the videographer, with the information that not only had he captured brilliantly the essence of who we were, he was the best in the country anyway, which was her opinion, not provable fact. Why ask us for constructive feedback (which was totally private, by email, so no-one was publicly embarrassed) if all you want is praise? I’m still despondent. Out there is a mediocre video that is supposed to show how good we are at what we do, and there is nothing I can do about it.